about myself,I am 48 yrs old,presently living in New Zealand for the last 3 years now.
Urdu is not my mother tongue but I fell in love with this language when i was quite young n the affair continues.
I have a passion for books n it has made me see the inner worlds with unimagined riches.My excursions into litratures of differnt languages has been a too fulfilling experience.
My understanding is that the aim of an art form is not just the arrangement of words in a consensually decided form but the crystalisation of thought n emotions.If a work of art is able to convey the pathos that it set out to convey in the begining with the same intensity then that art form has served its purpose.If that work does not fit in the consensually accepted format then it is better to give that form another name rather than judging it by the same old parameter.Remember Gulzar's poetry?he has been writing in almost a new art form which does not have APPARENT "wazn" or "behar" but ceratinly HAS an inner rythm.
A poem can be said to be amateurish IF it lacks CLARITY,INTENSITY,INNER RYTHM,A DISTINCTIVE CHARACTOR OR if it fails to evoke what it was composed to evoke. But if it merely adheres to the consensually accepted form of expression but does not fulfill above mentioned parameters,can it be called Professional poetry?For me,just the various permutaion n combinations of word which just recycle the tired cliches does not make good poetry,just because these adheres to the wazan n behar.At times it is good to write like that but ultimately we have to find our voice n confront the meaning of poetry.
I hope it is not a very dry introduction.
I would love to hear from all you with a brief intro,if u can.
regards
Brijinder "Sagar"
my credo
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Abdul Basit
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Hi,
I like your way of introducing your inner thoughts about urdu language. Which sure is not a complete introduction but does given an idea about your thought pattren and infact the thing count is nothing else but the logics and common sense one have.. sometimes we start calculating things and forget the core.. we do the same with poetry.. the most beautiful form of art .. :) Following statement stopped me to think and write this reply:
My understanding is that the aim of an art form is not just the arrangement of words in a consensually decided form but the crystalisation of thought n emotions.
As far as my introduction is concern, just like you I am also a new member on this little community, urdu bandhan... you can say we are alike, the only difference is urdu, which is my mother language but love for urdu is probably the same. As far as urdu poetry is concern, I think no mattars if its in behar or not.. if its in wazan or not.. the thing which is most important is the tone used, the way of expression used.... the intensity of emotions behind is more important above all.. everyone of feel about thing same way (more or less) .. but its all about way of expression we use... Words are words.. formation is nothing more than a formation.. words can have meanings.. a formation can place those words in a specific order.. but how many of these formations and set of words create a peice of art ? very few... isn't ?
Problem with urdu poetry is our respected senior poets made it a science then an art.. it came to existance and survived not because of behar, or wazan but for thoughts our poets put in their poetry. But now a days our focus is more on behar and ozaan rather than on thoughts presented in form of poetry or in any other form.
I am expecting few responses against this approch of mine, but i strongly believe its time to move on with the flow instead of binding ourselves with mathmatical rules to bound our thoughts.
Nice meeting you hope to learn more from you.
Regards,
I like your way of introducing your inner thoughts about urdu language. Which sure is not a complete introduction but does given an idea about your thought pattren and infact the thing count is nothing else but the logics and common sense one have.. sometimes we start calculating things and forget the core.. we do the same with poetry.. the most beautiful form of art .. :) Following statement stopped me to think and write this reply:
My understanding is that the aim of an art form is not just the arrangement of words in a consensually decided form but the crystalisation of thought n emotions.
As far as my introduction is concern, just like you I am also a new member on this little community, urdu bandhan... you can say we are alike, the only difference is urdu, which is my mother language but love for urdu is probably the same. As far as urdu poetry is concern, I think no mattars if its in behar or not.. if its in wazan or not.. the thing which is most important is the tone used, the way of expression used.... the intensity of emotions behind is more important above all.. everyone of feel about thing same way (more or less) .. but its all about way of expression we use... Words are words.. formation is nothing more than a formation.. words can have meanings.. a formation can place those words in a specific order.. but how many of these formations and set of words create a peice of art ? very few... isn't ?
Problem with urdu poetry is our respected senior poets made it a science then an art.. it came to existance and survived not because of behar, or wazan but for thoughts our poets put in their poetry. But now a days our focus is more on behar and ozaan rather than on thoughts presented in form of poetry or in any other form.
I am expecting few responses against this approch of mine, but i strongly believe its time to move on with the flow instead of binding ourselves with mathmatical rules to bound our thoughts.
Nice meeting you hope to learn more from you.
Regards,
Hi Abdul,
It is really nice to hear that I have been able to start a serious debate about what i feel is very important.Have u read or heard Gulzar's poetry?He ,like Sahir,is a lyricist for hindi movies.His poems are very difficult to compose musically but what a sensetive poet he is! he writes in a modern idion n about modern man's joys n pains.
I believe in writing with honestly n with intensity.
Hope to hear more from you n other too.
brijinder"Sagar"
It is really nice to hear that I have been able to start a serious debate about what i feel is very important.Have u read or heard Gulzar's poetry?He ,like Sahir,is a lyricist for hindi movies.His poems are very difficult to compose musically but what a sensetive poet he is! he writes in a modern idion n about modern man's joys n pains.
I believe in writing with honestly n with intensity.
Hope to hear more from you n other too.
brijinder"Sagar"
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Hashmat Usmani
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- Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:00 pm
- Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
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Brijinder and Abdul Basit saaHibaan,
aadaab,
I appreciate your love of urdu language and urdu poetry. I understand your point of view. Probably, as you know, there are other forms of urdu poetry that shunned all the established rules of constraints...we call them AAZAAD KALAAM...Different forms of poetry cater to different people of different taste and abilities. so, one is welcome to pen down the lines in whatever form he or she likes, the only problem with that is that you will loose a large section of population who do NOT like the recent trends in poetry writing.
I hope that both of you will continue with what you feel comfortable and good at.
Hashmat
aadaab,
I appreciate your love of urdu language and urdu poetry. I understand your point of view. Probably, as you know, there are other forms of urdu poetry that shunned all the established rules of constraints...we call them AAZAAD KALAAM...Different forms of poetry cater to different people of different taste and abilities. so, one is welcome to pen down the lines in whatever form he or she likes, the only problem with that is that you will loose a large section of population who do NOT like the recent trends in poetry writing.
I hope that both of you will continue with what you feel comfortable and good at.
Hashmat
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Abdul Basit
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- Posts: 10
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:48 pm
- Location: Saraab
- Contact:
Hi Brijinfrt,
I have not only read Gulzar but I did coposed and publish only gulzar in my under construction site, you can read what I liked the most of him at http://urduworld.com/poet_gulzar.htm
To me he expressed his feelings and thoughts in much more effective way then many of recent days poets who are stick with rules and just want to live with that, no mattars if it effects and restrict the expression and thoughts process.
Infact I myself wrote on this same topic couple of times, one link I am sharing here which is exactly on the same thing you mentioned do care to spare few mins to read it.
http://forum.urdubandhan.com/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=1796
Hope those of us who have opposite point of view will join us to give us their point of view.
Regards
I have not only read Gulzar but I did coposed and publish only gulzar in my under construction site, you can read what I liked the most of him at http://urduworld.com/poet_gulzar.htm
To me he expressed his feelings and thoughts in much more effective way then many of recent days poets who are stick with rules and just want to live with that, no mattars if it effects and restrict the expression and thoughts process.
Infact I myself wrote on this same topic couple of times, one link I am sharing here which is exactly on the same thing you mentioned do care to spare few mins to read it.
http://forum.urdubandhan.com/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=1796
Hope those of us who have opposite point of view will join us to give us their point of view.
Regards
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Abdul Basit
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- Posts: 10
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:48 pm
- Location: Saraab
- Contact:
Adaab Hashmat Sahib,Hashmat Usmani wrote:Brijinder and Abdul Basit saaHibaan,
aadaab,
I appreciate your love of urdu language and urdu poetry. I understand your point of view. Probably, as you know, there are other forms of urdu poetry that shunned all the established rules of constraints...we call them AAZAAD KALAAM...Different forms of poetry cater to different people of different taste and abilities. so, one is welcome to pen down the lines in whatever form he or she likes, the only problem with that is that you will loose a large section of population who do NOT like the recent trends in poetry writing.
I hope that both of you will continue with what you feel comfortable and good at.
Hashmat
I am wondering about this statement of yours.
The only problem with that is that you will loose a large section of population who do NOT like the recent trends in poetry writing.
From which "population sample " we are claiming large section of population do NOT like the recent trends. I believe here we are refering only to "poets of today's world" is thats the case, isn't it true that we are restricting rest of popuplation to join this form of art by making it more of mathmatics than art ?
Wa.Salam
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Abdullah Nazir
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nazariyaati adabi beHceN
MuHtarami
Brijinder SaaHib aur
MuHtarami Abdul-Basit Saahib,
Purkhuloos Tasleemaat,
Khshaamaded kii forum is meHfil meiN apni adabi takhleeqaat pesh karne waale aur tabsiraoN se navaazne waalaoN ke taAaruf ke liye hei.
BeHc o MubaaHice aur baat cheet kii forums meiN agar is qism ke mauzooAat per raushni Daali jaaye tou tabaadila-e-khayaal aur adabi nazariyyaat aur mucbat aur manfi pehloo ujaagar housakte heiN.
Ummeed ke aap khaaksaar kii madad farmaayenge.
Aapka Mukhlis,
Nazir.
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Abdul Basit
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- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:48 pm
- Location: Saraab
- Contact:
Hi Abdul,
Whatever I have studied has taught me that Art is the expression of one's intellectual n emotional inner landscapes.For that their are certain conditions which MUST be fulfilled before it becomes a work of art.
1.It must have clarity of thought.
2.It must have a personal signature in style which can be a mixyure of influence of some previous great artists PLUS one's own distinct style.
3.It must clearly express what it originally set out to express in the same intensity.
4.It must have its own inner rythm n charactor.
5.It is able to crystalise the emotions n thoughts.
6.It must go to readers' heart n mind with an intensity.
If a poem or any art work satisfy these preconditions it becomes much more than being merely a work of craftmanship.No matter how good but it will otherwise be Craftmanship only.
SO I REQUEST YOU ALL TO MEASURE MY POEMS ON THESE PARAMETERS N THEN JUDGED PLZ.
So we have to choose very consciousely what we want in ART to evelove it- merely our insistence onn existing parameters or experimentation? It is not very difficult to become GOOD craftsman if we just learn to stick to certain rules but to be an artist is entirely different ballgame. And this is NOT the negation of the existing parameters at all but the search for some more forms of expressions.
I am not here to hurt anyone here. I hope my comments will not be taken personally but be a percusor for a serious debate here.
Regards
Brijinder"Sagar"
Whatever I have studied has taught me that Art is the expression of one's intellectual n emotional inner landscapes.For that their are certain conditions which MUST be fulfilled before it becomes a work of art.
1.It must have clarity of thought.
2.It must have a personal signature in style which can be a mixyure of influence of some previous great artists PLUS one's own distinct style.
3.It must clearly express what it originally set out to express in the same intensity.
4.It must have its own inner rythm n charactor.
5.It is able to crystalise the emotions n thoughts.
6.It must go to readers' heart n mind with an intensity.
If a poem or any art work satisfy these preconditions it becomes much more than being merely a work of craftmanship.No matter how good but it will otherwise be Craftmanship only.
SO I REQUEST YOU ALL TO MEASURE MY POEMS ON THESE PARAMETERS N THEN JUDGED PLZ.
So we have to choose very consciousely what we want in ART to evelove it- merely our insistence onn existing parameters or experimentation? It is not very difficult to become GOOD craftsman if we just learn to stick to certain rules but to be an artist is entirely different ballgame. And this is NOT the negation of the existing parameters at all but the search for some more forms of expressions.
I am not here to hurt anyone here. I hope my comments will not be taken personally but be a percusor for a serious debate here.
Regards
Brijinder"Sagar"